First reactions. Telephone interview, October 2025

“I’m still trying to absorb it”

“I had a whole list of people that I thought were going to win,” says Joel Mokyr, “And I wasn’t on it.” Waking early, he opened up his computer to find out who had been awarded the 2025 prize in economic sciences, and found emails saying ’Congratulations.’ Then, as Mokyr tells the Nobel Prize’s Adam Smith in this brief call, he saw missed calls from Sweden on his phone and “the suspicion started to ripen.”

Interview transcript

Joel Mokyr: Hello! 

Adam Smith: Hello, Joel. Is that Joel?  

JM: It’s Joel, yes.  

AS: It’s Adam Smith calling from Stockholm. 

JM: Hello, Adam Smith. How are you, my friend? I remember you from 10 years ago. 

AS: I remember you very well. It’s lovely to hear you. And congratulations. 

JM: Thank you very much. I’m still trying to absorb it. If I sound a bit confused, don’t hold it against me, okay? Because this is all a bit overwhelming. We just got up. It’s like five in the morning here. Everybody says this, but I’m really being truthful if I said that this came is a total surprise. 

AS: Where did it catch you? How did you hear? 

JM: [Laughter] My phone is set in such a way that I can only receive phone calls from people on my contact list because otherwise I get junk calls in the middle of class and stuff. So I actually went to my computer to see who won the Nobel Prize this year, out of curiosity. And I get an email saying congratulations. And I go, it isn’t my birthday. But then I realised what was going on. Then there was a missed call on my phone from Sweden. And the suspicion started to ripen, as they say. I have a few questions that really I need to resolve fairly soon because this is going to be in less than two months. It’s the 10th of December, right? I haven’t bought my airline tickets yet. 

AS: I remember that you were at the ceremony and banquet 10 years ago as a guest.  

JM: So do I.  

AS: When you were there, did you imagine yourself for a moment as the laureate? 

JM: Are you kidding me? I’m an economic historian. We don’t win Nobel Prizes. Or we did once, but that was a long time ago. But no, I did not imagine. I really still, as I told you this morning, I went to check because I had a whole list of people that I thought were going to win, and I wasn’t on it. But I’m very pleased by the way, one of the co-winners, Philippe Aghion, and I are actually in the business of writing a book together. So that will probably sell well.  

AS: Good for sales and also good getting you together so you can work on it. One very quick question about your work. 

JM: I haven’t had my coffee yet, Adam. And my thoughts are still confused. We’re actually in our summer home in Michigan, and we’re about to drive back to Chicago. But I think it’s probably safe that my wife would drive rather than me because I’m a little bit confused. But if you let me think about that, and I have my morning coffee and call me a little bit later today, I may have a couple of thoughts for you. 

AS: Well, it was a joy speaking with you, Joel. Congratulations again. 

JM: Pleasure speaking to you again. If not before, I’ll see you in Stockholm. 

AS: I’ll see you there. 

JM: All right. Bye-bye, my friend. 

AS: Bye-bye. 

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